European Reply
As my first question, what is your assessment of recent Geneva agreement between Iran and 6 great powers and how do you see the future of bilateral relations between Iran and European countries? Particularly in the light of Geneva agreement, how do you see future of bilateral relations between Iran and Germany?
The Geneva agreement is of utmost importance, no doubt. It has already played on important role as to how other international relations have developed and I hope it will continue to do so. This concerns all European countries as well, including Luxembourg.
I´ve welcomed the Geneva agreement namely because it provided a new hope for lifting the sanctions which I have never considered as the right tool for changing the Iranian stance towards its nuclear program. The European Union has always been pressing on mutual confidence building mechanisms and I actually believe, that the Geneva agreement is the first real confidence building mechanism which will test honesty of intentions on both sides. I do not see a reason for not improving bilateral relations between Iran and Czech Republic when it is clearly proven that intentions of Iranian nuclear program are solely peaceful.
I am optimistic that the nuclear issue will be resolved in a positive manner. This will allow for a new beginning in the bilateral relations between Iran and Europe. Ultimately we need to achieve a return to normal in our relations. However, there a still a lot of obstacle to be overcome.
I will not delve into the issue of bilateral relations. Regarding the overall EU perspective on Iran, I hope this agreement will allow us to move into an era of increased contacts and co-operation. At the end of the day, Iran could – and should – be a strategic partner of Europe instead of anything else. I also believe that the aspirations of the Iranian people towards a freer and more globalised future would best be served if we try to dramatically increase interaction and exchanges between them and Europe. This is what I've been advocating for a very long time.
The interim agreement reached on the country's nuclear programme represents a major diplomatic breakthrough particular for the EU relation with Iran. While supporting efforts to reach a diplomatic solution, the European Parliament has called on the EU to adopt a broader strategy towards Iran which addresses the country's regional role and encourages more cooperation on counter-terrorism, fighting drug trade, and energy security. The EP’s Committee on Foreign Affairs is preparing a recommendation for the European External Action Service, the Council and the Commission expected to be adopted during the February 2014 plenary session. From Poland perspective we are happy about the agreement which have been reached and in the future we will be looking to improve our trade relation with Iran. Taking into consideration the history of our prosperous relationship we had, Poland is not satisfied with the recent drop of 30% in our trade relation. We value our partnership in the field of energy, trade and we are willing to work on rebuilding our relation in the future.
How much readiness and seriousness do you see in European countries to take practical steps toward Iran?
As a representative of the European Parliament I cannot make statements on behalf of the member countries. The parliament has indeed been proactive what comes to the possible establishment of an EU delegation in Iran and/or sending an EU envoy to Tehran.
It depends on what exactly is meant by the „practical steps towards Iran“. I am convinced that there are some member states that are ready to restart their trade relations with Iran. All depends on mutual openness and honesty in fulfilling the Geneva agreement. Generally speaking – European countries are equally ready to either ease the sanctions or continue the sanction regime.
Dual track strategies like they have been pursued for years by the EU are really not helpful. A new beginning requires mutual trust and that is something that needs to be fostered. It is the only way for both sides to prove their sincerity. That goes for all our relations with countries in the Middle East.
I see great interest and a certain scepticism, because we don't really know Iran. We don't know modern Iranian society, we don't know how the people of Iran think and feel, hope and believe. Europeans and many of their political representatives would certainly want relations with Iran to finally move to a level of communication where we don't eternally only focus on the nuclear business, and if Iran wants the same, it must help get the nuclear business out of the way. I think this is being done. The next step is Syria. If we manage to engage in meaningful action towards stopping the Syrian civil war, and to admit our respective mistakes – for yes, Europe is making them too – then indeed there may be many more steps in a not so distant future.
European Union considers Iran as a vital actor on the international political area. The agreement, reached in Geneva on 9 -10 January 2014 on technical details of the implementation of the deal signed with Iran in November, shows commitment of the EU diplomats. Two days of long negotiation that took place in Geneva were a substantial progress in all the pertinent issues, laying the foundations for a coherent, prompt and smooth implementation of the Joint Plan of Action within the six. In my opinion EU countries are eager to improve economic as well as political relation with Iran. It has been also shown by mission undertook by EU Delegation for Relation with Iran.
The United States and the EU have excellent working relations, but we are separate bodies and we do not coordinate our actions in all areas of life, nor is there a unified strategy toward Iran that I am aware of.
This question is not easy to answer and I am surely not the person to provide the most insightful answer. Both the EU and the US are following the same goal – security both for Iran as for themselves. There are, of course, some differences in their approach, but the overall goal is, however, common. The US may be surprised and suspicious about the high level of diplomatic activity on the EU side, but the reason behind this is very simple – the EU has much closer ties to Iran than the US.
With regard to Iran, the EU in recent years has been following the United States' strategy. This meant sanctions and the freezing of relations. It is only with recent changes in Iran and a new perspective for a resolution of the nuclear issue, including support from Russia, that the window of opportunity is opening up again. This goes for both the US and the EU. There is no separate strategy of the EU which is to say that there is no independent European strategy.
Europe has maintained relations with Iran when the US didn't, and we certainly don't depend on the US when thinking and formulating our stance on Iran and the sort of relations we want to engage in. Nor should we. Iran is much more a neighbour to us than to America, and clearly, parts of European history are intimately intertwined with the history of Iran – enough for me to believe that Europe should and must be able to find its own bearings on Iran.
European Union is working closely with United States, it can be seen in E3/EU+3 talks with Iran in Vienna, 20th February 2014. This was the first nuclear negotiations since the adoption of the Joint Action Plan, which set encouraging timetable for next talks in July. In the European Parliament there is special a delegation for relations with Iran, chaired by MEP Tarja Cronberg, the EP Foreign Affairs Committee and its subcommittee Security and Defence that are all dealing with negotiation with Iran. In the EU we are concerning relations with Iran as an important, issue, focusing also on respecting human rights and democratic values in the region.
Given the history of relationships between Iran and U.S, there is an accumulation of mistrust. While regarding Europe, Iran has lots of successful experiences. How independent is European foreign policies from U.S demands? To be clearer what is the role and weight of U.S in EU foreign policy?
The EU has been trying to coordinate its own common foreign and security policy during the last ten years. However, no country or body can be totally independent of other international actors, in the global age. The US is an ally of the EU and the EU tries to maintain good relations to as many countries as possible and the US is one of them. However, the EU and the member states have their own foreign policy, independent of the US.
As the USA and the EU share common values, it may seem, at first sight, as US having some crucial influence over the EU´s foreign policy. EU foreign policy is really trying to be as independent as possible when it comes to relations with Iran and as the EU foreign policy is standing on different pillars as the US one, it provides sometimes different results. However the strict stance towards the Iranian nuclear program stems from the fact that two European member states are nuclear weapon states as well. So the non-proliferation efforts of the EU foreign policy originates in the European values and in the interests and non-proliferation obligations of those two member states.
As you say, much of the relations between Iran and the US has been shaped by mistrust. For decades, the US have been interfering with political relations in Iran, they have supported or overturned governments, according to their interests, which mainly means economic interests. Deep rifts have formed on both sides. Of course it has been easy, in the time before President Rohani, to demonize Iran. In particular, during the Ahmadinedschad era great damage has been done and the international isolation of Iran has been advanced. This has also made the struggle for human rights in Iran more difficult.
Let me put it like this: We in Europe have a long tradition of economic relations with Iran. The "old aunt" Europe knows a lot about mentality and history of "old aunt" Iran. Because we know each other for a long time we should revive our relations in a diligent manner. This of course includes talking openly about the problems that need to be tackled. Ultimately, this could also be a way to improve relations with the US.
The EU and European states want clear signs from Iran that friendship will be the tone of the future. We know that Iran has a dynamic young population who want to engage with the world, and we should be ready to engage with them. This is the message that the US must be given from Europe. There is no US agent behind every European foreign minister, and the Iranian authorities know that trust is easier to build with Europeans than with the US. We will relay.
Despite of our common approach with the US, in the EU there are different procedures regarding the policy toward Iran, including imposing sanctions. The EU shares the same concerns and many times works in the same manner that the US, but it cannot be said that the EU is dependent on the US in the foreign policy area. For instance, contradictory to the American approach, the EU decided to lift some sanction such as frozen financial assets.
I am not all that familiar with the detailed economic policy as such between the EU states and Iran. As for sanctions, I think you ought to put this question to the respective companies -there may be diverging views between them as well, who knows -not me, I am afraid, as my mandate concerns the parliamentary relations between Iran and the EU.
It is obvious that not only Iranian people suffered under the sanction regime, but some European companies were affected as well. However, any restrictions to trade, either political or strategic, are perceived as problematic on the side of business. It will be hard to attract Iranian markets as China competes with dumped prices. However I still believe that there is a lot of space for proliferation of European expertise and innovations to Iran – something China cannot offer.
Of course, economic cooperation with Iran is in Europe's highest interest. Iran after all is a developed country that possesses resources that see a high demand all around the globe. For markets, this is of highest value. But on the other hand, going back to normal is not that easy after all. You see, we are contacted each week by people from Iran that suffer from discrimination and as a woman I know perfectly well what magnitude of change is ahead of Iran. We will not simply let it be!
Another word on the sanctions. My party in Germany, DIE LINKE, and everybody inside it, have at all times repudiated in strong and unambiguous terms the sanctions against Iran. Unfortunately, we have been alone in this so far. Those sanctions affect the economy, civil society, normal people. We think this is wrong. If the sanctions are now relaxed or completely abolished, then this is the right thing.
I wish we could move to dismantling sanctions against a neighbour. In this period of time, not using the tremendous opportunities that a structured economic partnership with Iran could offer would not be the most intelligent option Europeans could draw. Yet, there are reasons for the sanctions, and there has been a type of political leadership in Iran in the recent past which has used every possible opportunity to justify the sanctions. Now this is over, let's try and work toward freeing up all areas of co-operation between Europe and Iran, including the economy.
Iran is Europe’s sixth most important supplier of energy. Since 1991Europe has become more and more dependent upon Russia for natural gas imports. Its energy needs have gone up and its diversification strategy has not been efficiently implemented. Given its geographical location and the fact that Iran has the world’s second largest fossil energy resources, it has the potential to become the most important supplier of energy to Europe, as well as the most economic transit route between the oil rich Caspian Sea states and Europe. Although the relationship has significant growth potential, its development has been severely hampered by the political turmoil. Over the past three years European energy firms have been pulling out of Iran, and European Union sanctions prohibit any further investment in the Iranian energy sector. There is a risk in this strategy in that, given the competition between energy consumption in Asia and Europe and limited energy resources, Iran will continue to diversify its consumer base and provide energy guarantees to other countries such as India Pakistan and China. As in other areas, here too Chinese and other Asian enterprises are eager to move in on the Europeans’ business territory. How do you see all these? Don’t you think EU is losing too much by following the US policies toward Iran, while Iran has announced its readiness to build trust with international community over its peaceful nuclear program?
The energy supply issue is connected with the development of the relations between the EU and Iran, in the near future. I hope for the best, of course, but this will all be dependent on further development.
As I´ve pointed out earlier, I do not think that the EU is following solely the US policies. The EU also has had serious concerns about peaceful orientation of Iranian nuclear program as well as about the level of human rights abuse. The EU has also announced its readiness to lift the sanctions in the future – and possibly even the energetic sanctions – given specific conditions are met. I believe that both parties will finally fulfill the conditions and the normal, friendly and peaceful cooperation between the EU and Iran could be re-established.
The struggle for energy and the corresponding resources, gas and oil in particular, is one of the most important conflicts of our time. However, I cannot really understand why Iran has not yet started to invest in domestic renewable energies. Iran could be an example for the whole region. We have started to tackle our dependence from energy based on fossil resources by making increased use of energy stemming from wind or the sun. We feel the same about the peaceful use of nuclear energy. In your country, you actually have the chance to go without nuclear energy, it is not a clean source of energy after all. The storage of nuclear waste is one of the biggest problems for our civil economy, and we are not even close to a solution. Together with countries like Germany Iran should develop and implement alternatives to nuclear power.
Yes. As I have stated before, there must be no US lead in European approaches towards Iran, or it would happen at our structural disadvantage. Yet, Iran must be clear on who its focal partners should be. China and Pakistan may be more easy-going in some respects, but do Iranians want their country to be locked in alliances with partners the stability of which is less than evident? Europe is a benevolent partner, more so than any other. This might be worth something to millions of Iranians who think about development and progress, also in democratic terms. You will find no inspiration for such a route in the East.
How do you see the impact of parliamentary election in May 2014 on decision-making process in EU toward Iran?
Personally I see no connection between the parliamentary elections in 2014 and the decision-making toward Iran. EU democratic principles and standard procedures will be followed, as for the elections as well as electing new members to the Iran delegation in the parliament.
The European Parliament has, however, little say in the context of European foreign policy. However, members of European parliament can demand explanation of particular foreign policy settings, as I´ve done even in the context of Iranian sanctions in the past. The foreign policy of the EU is formed in the Council, so the EU decision making process is dependent on the political orientation of EU´s member states. The result of parliamentary elections will however provide a good illustration of possible future trends.
Please keep your fingers crossed, together with us, hoping that there will not be more populist parties and parties of the extreme right to enter the European Parliament. Those forces will not work towards détente and a new beginning in relations with Iran but seek to continue Iran's isolation.
It is not the European Parliament, or indeed any Parliament, which decides on these matters in the first place – not the Iranian Parliament either, by the way. Still, I hope that the next EP will see a solid alliance between Christian Democrats and Social Democrats to take matters further, and obviously, in this kind of configuration, Iran and its decision-makers could look at the EP as a reliable institution for confidence and trust building, as well as for the deepening of democratic interaction. In the past, we have done less than we could, but Iran must understand that there are certain practices which the EP will continue not to accept. A lot will depend on the Iranian course of action in the future. If we see more transparency in Iranian decision-making and a less rigid approach to what we call Human Rights – and we insist! – then a lot of doors will open.
The outcome of upcoming election is hard to predict, however I do not think that potential changes in component of European Parliament will imply a significant shift in policy toward Iran. European countries attitude is clear and coherent. We try to achieve improvement in bilateral relation with Iran and this goal is behind any political division within the chamber.
With the European Parliamentary elections, the shadow of euroscepticism grows stronger within the European Union. What are its origins and crucially what does it mean for Europe's future? Will EU remains a unified body or we are facing a multi pillar which has its own power struggles?
It is true that euro-scepticism has grown within the EU, at least in some member countries, unfortunately, from my point of view. It is too early to predict what exactly it may mean for the future of Europe. First we will have to see the outcome of the elections.
Euroscepticism is not as young as it may seem to be. The rhetoric that we can hear all over the Europe could have been heard in the House of Commons during the „reign“of Baroness Thatcher. For any politician it is very helpful to find an enemy. Eurosceptics found the EU as their own enemy on which they can put all the blame for problems that ordinary people are facing. In that sense, the EU is very big and easy target, although the European project is not responsible for any problems Europe is facing these days. As for the EU´s future – I do hope we will reform the institutional basis of the EU in such a way that more democracy has its say, that Commission will have less powers and more responsibility and that the dialogue between Parliament and Council will be more transparent. Such setting can lead to better functioning EU. I do not think that we are facing a threat of collapse, what we really are facing is a threat of ineffectiveness which we must address.
Yes, euroscepticism has been on the rise, also due to bad political decisions within the EU. Particularly the policies of austerity that have been forced on the southern Member States have contributed to this trend. In these countries, the living standard of many people has deteriorated. A second factor is the intention of the government of some stronger EU countries to change the Eurozone to an area, where the European Parliament is weakened and democracy minimised. So they can rule as they wish. In this regard we cannot take the EU for granted and have to defend it against those who seek to destroy it. Nationalism in Europe is the only alternative to European integration. And looking back to the 20th century, Europe has had enough of nationalism.
The reasons for this phenomenon are manifold, and their expression in various member states is not the same. What is certain is that, yes, the next EP will see more Euroscepticism, but no, this will not paralyse European decision making or create a new mainstream of European politics which would be adverse to integration. At the end of the day, those who advocate a truly integrated European political space with full rights for our citizens and a united stance on world affairs must explain to European citizens why this is needed, necessary, and inevitable if we want to continue to play a role on the global stage. Those who apologise to citizens for European integration are playing the game of the destroyers of Europe.
In the time of economic crisis which implicate a need for a tough political decision, especially when you are trying to find a common ground by Member States, this is nothing new that different voices want to be heard. However it doesn't imply a threat of internal division in the EU. All should remember that. EU derives its power from its diversity and despite of some sceptic opinions this is an inseparable component of the EU. We are learning from each other, trying to obtain compromise decision. I strongly doubt that after coming election the EU sceptic may serious breakthrough in EU structure.